The Problem in calling everyone “Antisemetic”

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  • #2531385
    Your Local Misnagid
    Participant

    We need to talk about how the word “antisemitism” is being thrown around so freely lately. It’s become a way to “cancel” or disqualify anyone who has a valid critique of Jewish issues. But here’s the problem: by using this label as a shield to shut people up, we’re actually breeding a new generation of complacency and self-ignorance within the Jewish community. We’re blocking out the noise, but we’re also blocking out the truth.

    Let’s look at how we treat the “goyim” who point things out. Take someone like Nick Fuentes. The mainstream media calls him a hateful antisemite and shuts the door. But as a Jew who actually listens to what he says instead of just reacting to the label, it feels different to me. I don’t see a true hatred of the religion there. Instead, I see critiques that are actually valid and deserve some sympathy.

    If I wasn’t Jewish, I’d also have a problem with the fact that many Jews in America vote strictly out of self-interest for “Jews first.” There’s a loyalty to Israel and the tribe that often comes before America, and let’s be honest, that is un-American. I never even recognized this in myself before because I was taught that anyone saying it was just a bigot. I thought that line of thinking was “prohibited.” But why is it hateful? It’s not. It’s a reasonable observation.

    When we label every critic an antisemite, we lose the ability to improve. I see this pattern in myself now. I’d probably still vote “Israel first” because those are my values, but I can no longer pretend that the people calling out that behavior are lying. They’re 100% right. We aren’t immune from critique, and we need to stop acting like we are.

    This “don’t critique us” mentality isn’t just a political problem; it’s harming Jews who don’t even care about politics, like the Yeshivish or Chareidi communities. It breeds this air of self-righteousness where we think we can do no wrong. If anyone inside the community speaks up against the status quo, they’re stripped of their platform and ignored. We can’t move forward like this.

    Look at the Chareidim in Israel. The status quo there is low employment, and the excuse is always “religious reasons.” But if you call that out, you’re branded as “anti-religion” or a “Tzioni”. The truth is, that “religious” excuse is a lie. It’s not a requirement to be unemployed.

    Look at religious Jews in America. Yeshivish people here work, they have careers, and they still maintain their religious life. It’s not a problem because that is their status quo. The Gemara and the Mishnah are full of examples of great sages who worked. Work doesn’t contradict religious life; it complements it. So why are the Chareidim in Israel stuck? It’s the same problem: they’ve decided that any challenge to the way they do things is an attack on the religion itself. Because they disregard the critique, they stay stagnant.

    I’m not saying this to be a “self-hater” or to fuel the people who actually do hate us. I’m saying this because I want to see growth. A community that believes it’s perfect is a community that’s dying.

    We have to stop using the “antisemitism” card to avoid looking in the criticism. We need to be self-aware enough to hear a hard truth, even if it comes from someone we don’t like. If we keep blocking out the “noise,” we’re just going to keep falling behind. It’s time to stop hiding behind the label and start doing the work to actually be better.

    #2531533
    akuperma
    Participant

    Bnei Brak is like Cambridge (near Boston). Almost no one does “useful” work. If they aren’t students, they are likely to be teachers, or educational administrators, or employees of schools, or they are providing goods and services to students, staff and schools. In fact, the Chareidi economy brings in huge amounts of foreign exchange (spending by foreign students, donations, etc.) and is a major source of employment for Jews living in Israel (to which a Keynesian multiplier needs to be applied). — There is a separate problem in that there is widespread prejudice against Orthodox Jews in Israel, and the frumer they are, the greater the prejudice. This is to be expected in a country whose national anthem is about the desire to be “free” of the the yoke of Torah. Many frum Jews prefer the security of the de facto ghetto to trying to get rich working for the outside world. While the situation may now be changing, America during the latter part of the 20th century was a golden era for frum Jews which much less discrimination.

    The reality is that those who hate Israel care nothing for Palestinian rights or Muslim culture. They are anti-Zionist since they hate Jews. If a different minority had a nationalist movement (e.g. the Celts in Britain, the American Indians in America, etc.), they would run to support. It is only Jews and Yiddishkeit that they hate.

    #2531535
    HaKatan
    Participant

    “If I wasn’t Jewish, I’d also have a problem with the fact that many Jews in America vote strictly out of self-interest for “Jews first.” There’s a loyalty to Israel and the tribe that often comes before America, and let’s be honest, that is un-American. I never even recognized this in myself before because I was taught that anyone saying it was just a bigot. I thought that line of thinking was “prohibited.” But why is it hateful? It’s not. It’s a reasonable observation.”

    Not even a century ago, Jews were murdered by the millions. Therefore, Jews are very concerned with doing what they can do in the voting booth to prevent a recurrence of that mass-murder and anything remotely like it. That is not at all “un-American”. Jews are among the most loyal citizens of any country in which they reside because, in part, they have a religious imperative (in Jeremiah) to seek out the peace of the land in which they reside. Every gentile can read this in, liHavdil, their bible, too. Especially in this country, which Rav Moshe called a medinah shel chessed, Jews are very grateful to the government for the ability to live our lives as Torah Jews.

    ————

    “Look at the Chareidim in Israel. The status quo there is low employment, and the excuse is always “religious reasons.” But if you call that out, you’re branded as “anti-religion” or a “Tzioni”. The truth is, that “religious” excuse is a lie. It’s not a requirement to be unemployed.”

    Yes, it is a requirement there, because the wicked Zionists insist the chareidim be shmaded in their army before allowing the chareidim to work. That’s why the chareidim cannot work – because the wicked Zionists impoverish them in an attempt to shmad them in their army to convert them from Jew to Zionist.

    #2531590
    ujm
    Participant

    The reason the frum community in Eretz Yisroel doesn’t elect to gain (on the books) employment is because the Zionists passed laws making it illegal for frum people in Eretz Yisroel to work unless they first join the Zionist Army. And the frum will not join the army since the IDF will shmad them into Israeli goyim.

    If they would me allowed to legally work without enlisting in the Israeli army, you’d see them working legally. But the frei don’t let the frum work.

    #2531727
    qwerty613
    Participant

    To YLM

    I thoroughly enjoyed your post, and I most definitely endorse it. I’d like to add a corollary. To borrow from Karl Marx, “Loshon Hora is the opiate of Orthodox Jewry.” There are certain subjects which are taboo in the frum world and if someone tries to discuss them immediately, he hears, “That’s Loshon Hora.” The laws of Loshan Hora aren’t meant to stifle free speech, rather it’s to set up boundaries. As to your point about playing the anti-Semitism card, I am very critical of Chabad, and a few years ago someone tried to shoot me down by calling me an anti-Semite.

    #2531816
    Your Local Misnagid
    Participant

    @qwerty613
    100% I think that your anecdote of being shut down for your criticism of Chabad perfectly exemplifies the condition that I’m saying. This rhetoric of labeling someone as hateful for valid critique is the modern poison of our generation. May Hashem bring healing to our people soon.

    #2531820
    Your Local Misnagid
    Participant

    @HaKatan @ujm
    You both had similar statements about how the IDF is trying to force chareidim to become goyim.
    I don’t want to argue with the claim necessarily because I believe it’s true on certain levels. but I do want to point out that despite all the rhetoric the situation is certainly exaggerated. Any chareidi who lives in israel and sees the reality of the situation understands the nuance of the situation. I have chareidi friends who went to the army who are in chareidi units and non-chareidi units. Every single one I know, is still strongly religous and isn’t faltering anytime soon. I know it’s hard to try to argue against all the loud voices speaking out against the IDF and how serving in it is so “evil”, but just know there is real talmidei chachamim that supported it, although a minority. I think maybe a less black and white outlook of the situation can allow some sort of understanding, or maybe not.
    Thank you for your responses and feedback guys!

    #2531835
    DovidBT
    Participant

    It’s become a way to “cancel” or disqualify anyone who has a valid critique of Jewish issues.

    When people are labeled “anti-X” because they criticize group X, that creates or increases hatred toward group X.

    #2531861
    rescue
    Participant

    Querty your suddenly agreeable today!
    Second is it true that the zionists want to make frum people not religious because they want to enlist them or is enlisting by nature making people not religious.
    I don’t think there’s an ulterior motive I wonder if there is more anger from the non religious side that the religious are getting exempted despite themselves being forced which naturally makes people feel resentful. I wonder if there’s truly an ulterior motive to make people “not religious” that might be a stretch

    #2532177
    rescue
    Participant

    After watching tylers video, I think if we didn’t take advantage of the system and live by this psedo morality u they would neve have anything to use againts us. But because we take advantage of the system. And we get away with certain small things and our “scales are not balanced” like the Torah demands. We end up looking bad to outsiders. We reap what we sow? Is that possible?

    #2532292
    MosheFromMidwood
    Participant

    While I agree that not everything is anti-semitism, one needs to be aware that negative comments, even if valid, provide fuel for real anti-semites. Maybe Nick Fuentes isn’t as big an antisemitic as he is made out to be, but I would not doubt that he has many followers who hate Jews and blame Jews for everything

    #2532407
    qwerty613
    Participant

    To rescue

    I’m always agreeable. I only criticize those who challenge the tenets of Judaism. That’s Chabad and that’s you.

    #2532437
    HaKatan
    Participant

    “Your Local Misnagid”:
    No, it is not exaggerated despite your alleged few friends that are allegedly still religious.
    And no real “talmidei chachamim” ever supported it, of course, including Rav Steinman.

    First of all, the numbers are what they are, and, more importantly, the intentional shmad of that army is what it is.
    Second, you don’t know what damage to their emunah was done to them in that army even if they still appear outwardly frum.
    Emunah must be 100%, not tainted by nationalism or any other idolatry

    #2532459
    rescue
    Participant

    Moshe unfortunely because of our overuse of “antisemitism” actually if you read a lot of comments on the internet, nobody is taking it seriously anymore. So unfortunately that backfired

    #2533541
    Kuvult
    Participant

    Another issue I (& many nonjews) find distasteful is the often complete lack of awareness about others some Jews have.
    I read about a mother whose child is the only Jew in the public school class.
    In December she decided to print copies of a Menorah for the whole class to color & when the teacher didn’t use them she of course cried, “Antisemitism”
    Let’s envision the reverse. 29 Jewish kids in the class & 1 nonjew. The one non-jewish mother prints copies of a Xmas tree to color in place of the Menorah. How would that work out?
    What Jewish kid is excited to show his parents the Xmas tree he colored? What will the Jewish kids and parents think of this non-jewish family?
    Too often Jews feel the need to constantly inject Judaism into everything when in truth the best antidote towards lot of Antisemitism is simply being “Normal”

    #2533717
    HaKatan
    Participant

    @Kuvult:
    The antidote to antisemitism is not assimilating.
    Being normal could certainly prevent non-antisemitic hate or annoyance, though.

    The big difference between a menorah and liHavdil that tree is that the menorah is simply a lantern that happens to be used on Chanukah, while that tree has inherent religious (idolatrous) symbolism.

    So, regarding your story, from a secular perspective (which is what you mentioned), there is nothing wrong with giving out a menorah to color. If giving out to the class sheets of color-in menorah would have made the student feel welcome in their class, then that’s a theoretically reasonable idea on the mother’s part. But that does not extent to crying antisemitism if the teacher or school decline that, as there could be many perfectly valid reasons for them to decline that.

    From a religious perspective, meaning the truth, though, a Jew does not belong as a student in a class of gentiles. That’s the real problem. Second to that, the Jew should not be “making waves”, even if the idea is “normal”.

    #2533800
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    I was with you until you said “Nick Fuentes”. The man has repeatedly blamed every perceived failing in US society on us, the Jews. From Mishkav Zachor to the current war with Iran. If he’s not an anti-Semite, then Hitler Y”Sh isn’t either.

    A common refrain that anti-Semites repeat these days is that Jews and Israel conflate criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism. This gives them a place to hide as they can just brush off criticism by saying they’re only being “anti-Zionist”. Maybe we should stop with the knee-jerk reaction that every criticism of Netanyahus current government (and there are a LOT of critcisms) is anti-Semitic.

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