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Most Pesach minhagim like Gebroks, eating processed foods, and mishing are family minhagim developed and modified over the last 100 years depending on circumstances. As such, the answer to any shayloh regarding these minhagim (Can I drink store bought wine? Can I borrow a friends pot to cook? Can I put butter on Matzah?) is to do what you feel would be better for you.
Not quite correct; while processed foods did not exist 100 years ago, gebroks and mishing are likely century old minhagim, if not within the families, certainly within various kehillos.
Processed foods is definitely a recent thing, because foods weren’t processed until relatively recently.
I’m not sure when the custom of some not to eat out started.
Gebrokts is not just from the last 100 years. It started with the Baal HaTanya, so it’s about 200 years. Still, that’s not enough of a mesorah to be considered a proper minhag, especially when the Baal HaTanya himself admitted that it had no real halachic basis.This OP, above, is plain amartzus and absolutely false, without a shred of truth to it.
The minhagim are far far older than 100 years.
And, regardless, no one has the right “to do what you feel would be better for you.” Everyone is obligated to honor, continue, fulfill and do their father and grandfather’s minhagim.
Processed food were invented in the 19th century. Before then all food was made from scratch in the kitchen, year round. There were bakeries and alcohol that were usually pre-made, but that was it. Gebroks is implied as an issue in the Talmud, which suggests it has always been an issue (the use of the thin matza we usually use, rather than “Matza cakes” is a response that made the matter a less “hot” topic); the invention of processed for in the 19th century made matters more complicated since if all your food is 100% cooked from home with raw ingredients, you have fewer issues.
akuperma: The Gemara absolutely does NOT suggest that gebrokts is an issue – Pesachim 41a says straight out that one can fulfill the mitzvah of eating matzah even if the matzah has been soaked in water, which means it’s not a problem. This is brought in the Shulchan Aruch as well (OC 461:4).
The real source for the current minhag not to eat gebrokts comes from the Baal HaTanya. In fact, it is said that the Baal Shem Tov ate kneidlach on Pesach!Joseph, what would you say to the Baal haTanya, who did not follow the minhag of his father or grandfather, and instituted the minhag not to eat gebrokts? What would you say to the Baal Shem Tov, who did not follow his father’s minhagim much at all, instead instituting new ways of practicing Judaism, claiming that Achiya haShiloni taught them to him when he ascended to Shamayim?
There is no minhag not to eat processed food. The minhag (for hundreds of years) was not to mish and therefore not eat foods not produced in your home. Obviously processed foods fit under this long standing minhag.
what do you mean “new” minhagim? In my family, we did not eat machine matzah from the time of Beis Hamikdash.
The problem might be that these minhagim might need to change quickly with technology and social changes – sometimes l’kula, sometimes l’humra.
For example, nobody was saying hamotzi on pizza 100 years ago – as it was a treat. Now people do because it became, lo aleinu, a full lunch.
Processsed food became more uniform and with different ingredients. Humriche food became more accessible in many places.High time these old minhagim undergo scrutiny and re-evaluation as to their validity. We have more sophisticated resources to know today what are kitniyot as opposed to what talks and walks like kitniyos being identified as kitniyos. Let us bring some normalcy to the process.
I understand that R Ovadia Yosef paskened that gebrokhts are minhag taut and should be dealt with via hatarat nedarim.
Minhag K’Halacha. No one has a right to forgo their father’s minhagim.
Joe: what would you say about the Baal Shem Tov, who completely moved away from his father’s minhagim? What about the Baal HaTanya, who changed from his father’s minhagim?
DaM,
Why don’t you ask Rabbi Bender?
To understand the limits – one of R Moshe’s students did not eat gebrochts. Got married. Explained his minhag to his wife (or so he thought). Came to the kitchen 2 days before Pesach and saw his wife cooking kneldlach … not clear, whether he fotrgot to tell her, or she did not pay attention. So, he asked R Moshe – what is the way to deal with this situation? How to tell his new wife that the kneldlach are gebrochts?
DaMoshe> What about the Baal HaTanya, who changed from his father’s minhagim?
Indeed. On this shitah, I was once for chol hamoed at a chabad minyan where there were exactly 10 of us. I used the leverage and said – I’ll come on the condition I can wear tefilin. I am aware this is contrary to the halakha “when in Rome …”, but I felt hasidim changed the minhagim so they can’t be too offended.
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