Reply To: Sharing the burden – Why Israel needs Chareidim to survive.

AAQ said: “You keep harping on the “charedi” self-identification. I don’t really care.

YYA: I only went there because of you calling “no true Scotsman” on me. There is no inherent need to go there for purposes of this discussion.

AAQ: “Was Rambam charedi? I asked here before – and would he be now?”

YYA: Well, he wasn’t “RZ” because Zionism wasn’t invented yet… He wasn’t “MO”, because “Modern” [as in Enlightenment Era philosophy and worldview] wasn’t invented yet… [Islamic Aristotelianism was very different from Enlightenment, and “Rationalism” is very different from “Empiricism”. But that’s a whole different discussion.] Have you heard of Rav Meir Mazuz ????? He was Chareidi. So do the cheshbon…

AAQ: “When I started wondering whether Rambam in our times will go to Lakewood or to MIT first (nobody answered here), someone said – to Lakewood, because after MIT, he will not be admitted to Lakewood.”

YYA: He probably wouldn’t go to either of them… People make much ado about the Rambam being a “doctor”. To become a doctor 800 years ago, there was no need to go to college or medical school, and no standardized tests or mandatory residency and internship. Let alone gratuitous courses in kefirah, co-eds, and campus culture… Aside which, the Rambam sat and learned full time and was supported fully by his brother [contrary to how people misinterpret his shittah…] until his brother was killed in a shipwreck. Only then was he forced to become a ‘doctor’, which at the time was about as difficult as taking a basic vocational course at a Chareidi school…

AAQ: “Let’s say, you are a pashute kosher Jews totally disconnected from this internal football, say, a Persian or a Teimani, landing in NYC. You know what Torah is, you can read it by heart, you know Rambam and S’A … So, you listen to these two T’Ch. Do you have a way to select which one of them is the “real Torah”, or maybe you decide that both have value, and you show both a good Sephardishe respect.”

YYA: To quote both of us: “He probably wouldn’t go to either of them…” [He would] “decide that both have value, and [he would] show both a good Sephardishe respect.” That’s what most of them did. Among Sephardim who went to Ashkenazi institutes of higher Jewish learning, I believe there are more in Yeshivish places than in YU style places.

AAQ: “For example, on co-ed high schools – R Soloveitchik writes certain rationales for this. He was certainly aware of all possible objections. In fact, his first response from a shaila from NY board in 1950s was that he is not going to respond to such a provocative topic without an assurance that someone needs it.”

YYA: In simple English, the rationale boils down to one line: “If they will anyway have boyfriends/girlfriends [=???], better they should have Jewish boyfriends/girlfriends than Goyish ones [= being lost to ??? ????? altogether ???].” That, and only that, was what was meant by “someone needs it.” But a community that is holding in such a matzav is not a ??? ???? to reckon with when it comes to ?????? ?????, which is what the IDF sugya is.