Reply To: Time to make the popcorn

AAQ – Ok, so then claim your position and defend it: your position is not about protecting learners, but about anyone from your community joining.

That is my position, and in practice that is the (not publicly stated) position of the vast majority of Gedolei Yisroel.

This is exactly what I was asking – be clear what you stand for. Don’t mislead people with different arguments.

What I stand for doesn’t make a difference. The Gedolei Yisroel do what they have to do for the benefit of Klal Yisroel. You don’t have to like the methods they use.

It does not surprise me, and probably, you too when leftists are using biased arguments against religious Jews. But it is bizayon to Torah when irresponsible arguments are made in the name of the Torah. A lot of comments here that use word “illegal” instead of “I disagree” illustrate that.

What does using the term “illegal” have to do with the Torah? The secular government has rules that they claim to follow. What the AG has been doing for the past two years is in fact illegal, but the SC who are supposed to call her out for doing so, for some strange reason refuse to do so…

You can’t use such language if you are an erliche Yid.

?? ??? ????? ??? ???? ????? What didn’t you understand? Normal galus operating procedure since Yaakov Avinu.

And those who use it here are simply representative of much larger community that use this loshon. See Steipler’s letter.

The Steipler’s letter? Get real. He was talking about misrepresentation of Halacha, not Israeli secular law.

Still, my impression is that many of the rabbonim would agree to service of those who are not learning, at least in part.

Not exactly. Some of the Gedolim agree to paying lip service to “quotas” which are tacitly understood to be filled mainly by shababniks, OTD, Chardakim, etc. who “are anyway being mechalel Shabbos and doing issurei kares”… (It is known in the Chareidi world who said that.) Others disagree even with that. There is a difference between “not learning” and “mechalel Shabbos” (“Issurei kares” means having a GF if you didn’t understand.)