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Chaim87
Participant

@HaKatan

To the first half of your question, not all gedolim held that zionsim is evil. Yes R Elchonan zl did as did Briska rav, minchas eluzar, chbad and belz. But others held it was al pi torah. R Kook was held in high esteem by many Alexander leaned towards Zionism too. Eevn the Imeri emes was only against the secular nature of it. in 1937, the Agudah proclaimed that they can go along with a jewish state providing it upholds torah values. Yes R Elchanon walked out on agudah because of that but that was Agudah’s pask. If your question is how can they go against all gedolim without a sefer written to disprove them? That’s not a requirement. lastly they were gedolim in their own right.

(There is even a “zug” they say over from r amrom Blau when asked how can he attend the Boyna zl levaya if rizyhin is such tzionim? R Amram replied for Rizhyin, Boyan was a kanoi!)

To your second point, “do they still hold that way”? Well this is where we almost agree. They never took back their shitah that jews having a statehood is a good thing and a haschlata degulah. But at the end of the day, they are opposed to secular forces trying to shmad jews. Thats a separate discussion and distinction that i have been trying to tell you. They are against the govt for being secular and therefore also hold its bad to modernize charedim. It doesn’t mean that us having a country and homeland is bad. That part never changed. And by the way, is ay even the Satmar reba zya wouldn’;t hold the way he held if the medina was run by charedim not looking to shamd us. Yes his sefer is up for interpretation too. I know he makes it clear the idea of a state is trief even without the shamd. But I think that’s just to strengthen the wall he is trying to build vs him really thinking that.