“This is something that will be paid back with reasonable assurance.”
No, THIS is silly. If you only got back exactly what you paid in, it wouldn’t be enough for anyone to live on rendering SS useless. It depends on a constant influx of new “investors” (taxpayers). The problem with a pyramid scheme model isn’t that it’s immoral or fraudulent. The problem is that it is mathematically impossible for them to work. If they worked, every financial institution would be doing this, and it would be a great way for private retirement funds to operate. The number of new investors needed to sustain it goes up exponentially, so after a few iterations, you start needing an insane amount of new buy in. I doubt the numbers are readily available, but I would assume we currently need more people than are currently residing in the US (maybe the world) to be paying into SS to actually pay for it. Since that isn’t happening, they’ll just pay for it with debt. At that point, why not just pay for all of it with debt and save the taxpayer some money?
“Is each of us allowed to decide what is “fair” and what is “devastating” and not pay extra?”
We should be. That’s his point. You’ve been trained to think it’s crazy, but it’s not.
Dr. Pepper:
If I take your money at gun point, I’m obviously stealing. If I hold you at gun point and force you to buy an item you don’t actually want for a price you don’t agree upon, you would also probably call that stealing. Yet, somehow when the government does exactly that, not only is it not stealing in your eyes, it would be stealing for the victim for not pay for the unwanted item.
The argument that the government effectively owns us and therefore has the right to anything we earn is effectively comparable to slavery. Meaning, they could take 100% of our income and make us work for free, and that would be their right because they own us. They graciously allow us to keep 50-80% of our earnings because they are benevolent masters apparently. At what percentage do you have a problem with this, or do you genuinely hold that they have the right to take everything? I get the taxation as a necessary evil case, but I absolutely do not understand how anyone can argue that tax collectors are on the moral high ground and that it would be stealing not to be extorted by them. Any other time in history, you probably would have seen it this way. People have become a little too comfortable in America.
“People are desperate to live in the US so hopefully everyone will admit there is a benefit to being American.”
People from North Korea are desperate to live in China. People in Somalia are desperate to live in Iran. It’s all relative, and I would contend you don’t really believe your own argument. If someone were desperate to leave his country (eg. the folks you mention who want to come to the US), does that mean they should not pay taxes to their country since they don’t see the benefit of it?
I would say people SHOULD only have to pay taxes on the programs where they actually see real benefit. I believe your argument, but you don’t.